An Interview with Dave Taylor ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Before most of us had even heard of the Internet, Dave Taylor was busy making it a better place to be. A decade ago, Dave Taylor created Elm, the first ever, user-friendly way to read your e-mail. It was Elm that first introduced me to the Internet an it still is being used by many Netizens. Always involved in the evolution of the Internet, Dave has since formed Intuitive Systems, written "Creating Cool Web Pages with HTML" (IDG Books, 1995), co-authored "Internet Business Guide" (with Rosalind Resnick, SAMS, 1995), and of course created Embot, the autoresponder program that runs this corner of the AutoNet. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AutoNet TourGuide: Dave, it seems as though you have been around on the Internet forever. Can you tell us how long it's really been and how you first got involved? Dave Taylor: Indeed it has been a while: I first logged in to the Internet to read what was called a Usenet newsgroup (net.singles, if you must know) in 1980, while a freshman at the University of California at San Diego, where I was starting my degree program in Computer Science. ANTG: What were some of your first big projects that really got you noticed on the Net? Dave Taylor: Probably the first project that I did that got me involved with the net was just being active on Usenet. For specifics, I'd say that my connection with electronic mail started when I released the first version of the Elm Mail System in about 1986, while I was working at HP's Colorado Networks Operation. I was seeking a very different kind of program for the Unix environment, one that didn't need documentation, took advantage of the entire screen (a new concept back then), and let the user focus on the *message* not the *medium*. It took off surprisingly quickly and wasn't long before I was finding people scattered throughout the world using the mailer I'd originally written just for myself. AutoNet TourGuide: There's no doubt that most readers are familiar with Elm. It's really amazing that after a decade many Netizens are still using it today. That's an impressive task considering how fast Internet technology changes. We're all glad that you decided to design a better system, which I guess explains your need to create Intuitive Systems. Could you introduce us to Intuitive Systems and tell us a few of its biggest contributions to the computer industry and the Internet. Dave Taylor: After having developed Elm, I continued to explore some of my ideas with interface design, particularly whether friendly software that let people focus on solving their own problems or finding the information they sought rather than the medium. In '86 I formed Intuitive Systems, a small consulting company where we try to help other firms design and create truly friendly systems. Clients in our first few years include Apple Computer, Hewlett-Packard, UCSF and the Center for Computer Assisted Research in the Humanities, among others. In the past few years, however, the online world has really exploded in growth and use, and we also are helping companies create sensible and 'smart' online systems, particularly on the Web. Our most recent set of clients has included E*Span, Sprint Long Distance and Spectrum Consulting. Again, our goal is to offer a visually attractive, interesting, and easily navigable place for customers and friends to mingle and explore. Another project that has been a bit of a sideline for Intuitive Systems but a personal pleasure of mine is Embot, a simple Unix-based email autoresponder. Again, the goal was not to write a complex rule-based mail package but rather a super-simple self-configuring application that someone with minimal experience could install and have help filter and respond to their email. It's doing very well for shareware, and I've got some fun additions planned for the next month or two. Embot can tell you about itself too - just send an email message to embot@northcoast.com ANTG: Embot is a great little program that has many possibilities. When you created it, did you realize its full potential or was it more of an item of convenience that you were looking for at the time? Dave Taylor: I can't say that I expected Embot to be quite as popular as it is, but I recognized a great need for a self-configuring mail autoresponder. Ironically, it's one of the first programs I've written where I don't actually use it at all: I use it's bigger brother Filter, which is part of the Elm package. In the six months that Embot has been around as Unix shareware, however, I've received a surprising number of user payments and had some very interesting conversations with companies about them purchasing the rights to use Embot as a basis for their own services. It's a model I really like; everyone sharing their expertise to make things better, and if any individual party is going to make great profits, then they share that with the rest of community. That's why I'm adamant about supporting and registering my shareware apps. I've also some ideas for how I'd like to expand Embot during the new year, including giving it the ability to automatically send binaries and other non-textual files. Embot will tell all the registered users when there are any significant changes! :-) ANTG: Between taking care of Intuitive Systems' clients, book writing, programming, and being an all-around Internet Guru, you certainly do seem to be constantly in demand. Are the smaller projects like Embot what you work on when you need a break, or do you have real (non-computer related) hobbies to relax the mind? Dave Taylor: I'm supposed to have hobbies? Uh oh... Seriously, I have two dogs that I enjoy playing with (Jasmine and Karma), enjoy hiking in the California foothills quite a bit, and like to read fiction, history and architecture books. Right now I'm in the middle of three or four books, including one about James Murray, the original editor of the Oxford English Dictionary. I'm also an amateur photographer and enjoy traveling to various outdoor locales for shoots. ANTG: It definitely sounds like an enjoyable balance. Did you end up where you are today because of a well thought out plan or was more a matter of doing what you liked and waiting to see what happened next? Have you given any thought to where you would like to find yourself in the future? Dave Taylor: Where I am today is definitely more a result of some happy coincidences than a definite ten-year plan. Ironically, my goal in college was to get a job as a research scientist at HP Labs or another similar research facility, and once I got there - by 25 - I was kind of lost for new goals. Now my goals have turned less professional and instead I seek to find a happy balance between family, friends, and my working life. Did I mention my hope to retire in a few years? :-) That's probably my best answer to the question of where I'd like to be in the future: relaxing without having to worry about income or clients, but instead being able to really focus my work time on helping the industry and the online communities. ANTG: So in about five years, while you're well into your retirement, where do you think the Internet will be? Dave Taylor: I was going to say "same as it ever was", but in fact I think that what's going to happen is that the Web is going to get more and more complex, eventually becoming a quasi-interactive television system with very high-priced productions available for the asking. By that point, it'll have split off from the primarily hobbyist/everyman Internet itself, and we'll see the Internet settle back down to what it does so well: let people communicate effectively and easily with each other. On the "other side of the fence" they'll be ProWeb or some such thing, and that will be - literally - a replacement for the cable TV that we have today. It will take longer than five years, but I think we're already just starting to see it happen, with the $100000+ sites coming online with Java, VRML and other fancy (and expensive) facets of Web design. For example, the NFL home site has cost the NFL over $350,000 already, which starts to approach TV production costs (though it's still quite a better bargain today). [you can see what you think of this site for yourself: http://www.nflhome.com/] My biggest fear is that the zeal to expand and grow the Web into a viable commercial venue will corrupt the rest of the Internet and the invaluable capabilities that we have - email and Usenet - will be lost in the shuffle. Time will tell, but we can make a difference, I think, by encouraging the fancy expensive Internet sites to branch off into their own space leaving the rest of the Internet tool set to the rest of us! * E N D *